Matjaž Han za Delova Ozadja: “Zmago Socialnih demokratov na prihodnjih volitvah je realno pričakovati.”

Z vodjo Poslanske skupine Socialnih demokratov Matjažem Hanom se je minuli teden, tik pred odhodom na sestanek vrha koalicije, za Delova Ozadja pogovarjala novinarka Mateja Babič Stremecki. Od sestanka ni preveč pričakoval, ker da na enem srečanju nekaterih stvari pač ni mogoče rešiti. O zdravstveni reformi, pravi, se pogovarjamo že več kot pol leta, o gradnji drugega tira od prvega dne podpisa pogodbe, glede reorganizacije centrov za socialno delo en sestanek ne prinese rezultatov. Problemi se skrivajo v podrobnostih. In kadrovske zadeve definitivno razpadajo, je kritičen Matjaž Han. Zanj je ključno, ali so kot koalicija sploh še kaj sposobni narediti, ali pa se bodo poslej ukvarjali le še z volitvami.

Kar se je dogajalo v postopku (ne)imenovanja Željka Puljića in Francija Žmavca za nadzornika SDH, je šolski primer tega, kako se ne kadruje. Šlo je za docela neprimeren postopek v smislu obračunavanja v javnosti namesto razčiščevanja stvari za zaprtimi vrati. Kaj res ni več mogoče normalno izpeljati nobene kadrovske zadeve?

Odkar smo se odločili, da bomo kadrovali s pomočjo kasov in raznih agencij ter nekakšnih skritih ozadij, ne vemo več, kdo pije in kdo plača. Politika je zato, da vlada in prevzema odgovornost ter da kadruje na pomembna področja ljudi, za katerimi bo stala z vso svojo odgovornostjo. Ta odgovornost seveda prinaša tveganje, da je za slab kader odgovorna slaba politika, in ta mora skupaj z vsemi ljudmi, ki jih je postavila, oditi. Le tako lahko dobimo dobre strokovnjake. Zdaj pa se namesto tega med sabo borijo domnevno vplivni ljudje iz ozadja in zato tudi prihajajo na dan razne anonimke in podobno.

Pa so bili tudi na SD izvajani pritiski za imenovanje ali ne? Drži, da ste tudi vi špekulirali, ker ste hoteli v SDH spraviti Matevža Marca?

Nobenih pritiskov na SD ni bilo. Ministrica za finance je prišla z dvema imenoma tik pred sejo vlade in naši ministri se niso želeli na vrat na nos odločiti, ali ju bodo podprli ali ne, ne da bi vedeli, kdo so ti ljudje. Gre navsezadnje za nadzor nad milijardami državnega premoženja. Tisti z daljšim zgodovinskim spominom smo sicer vedeli, da gre za dobra gospodarstvenika, ki pa imata nahrbtnik, kar bi lahko bila težava, zato smo se glasovanja vzdržali. Potem pa je šla zgodba svojo pot.

Kdo z resnimi kompetencami bo sploh še hotel kandidirati za takšne položaje, če vedno obstaja možnost, da ga bodo zato, ker nekomu nekaj ne bo všeč, javno zmrcvarili?

Dokler ne bo politika jasno prevzela odgovornosti in dokler ne bodo tisti, ki se bodo prijavljali na razpise, vedeli, da imajo podporo v koaliciji, do takrat bodo vedno tovrstni problemi. Ker bi moralo biti tudi v politiki tako, da ko enkrat daš roko, moraš zadevo izpeljati. Ne pa držati figo v žepu. Veriga pač vedno poči pri najšibkejšem členu. SD gotovo ni najšibkejši člen, vidimo pa, da nova politika in novi obrazi ne dajejo rezultatov, ki so jih obljubljali.

Skrajno neokusno je bilo tudi, kar ste si v parlamentu privoščili pri imenovanju članov fiskalnega sveta in novih ustavnih sodnikov. Zdaj smo že tako daleč, da nihče niti ne poskuša prikrivati dejstva, da je z glasovi v parlamentu skoraj tako kot na tržnici.

Lahko bi pritrdil temu razmišljanju, ampak v državnem zboru je nekaj glasovanj, kjer je potrebno določeno število glasov. Za imenovanje fiskalnega sveta jih potrebujemo 60. Torej, če hočemo imeti fiskalni svet, da ta postavi ogledalo proračunu in financam, potrebujemo tako pozicijo kot opozicijo, in za to so potrebni neki dogovori. Se pa strinjam, da imajo tudi ti mejo dobrega okusa.

Žalosti me, da te dni, po glasovanju, nekatere stranke tudi na desnem polu govorijo o raznih kupčkanjih, po drugi strani pa so sami prišli ponujat glasove za zakonodajo, tudi za ustavne sodnike. Veliko jih je kazalo s prstom na predsednika republike, češ kako slabo je izbral kandidate za ustavne sodnike. Sam se s tem ne strinjam. Predsednik republike je v danem razmerju moči strank v parlamentu predlagal seznam štirih imen, ki so imela dobro možnost za izvolitev, kar se je navsezadnje izkazalo ob glasovanju. SDS in NSi sta predlagali Klemna Jakliča. Težko mu očitam, da ni izobražen, ne strinjam pa se z njegovimi tviti in javno komunikacijo in priznam, da mi njegova politična drža ni blizu.

Dva kandidata je predlagal predsednik republike sam, enega pa na predlog največje stranke. In priznati mu moramo, pa če je to komu všeč ali ne, da je sedanji predsednik države predlagal največ levosredinskih kandidatov za ustavne sodnike. Je pa treba ta razmerja levo – desno pustiti pred vrati ustavnega sodišča prvi dan, ko kandidati stopijo v čevlje ustavnega sodnika. Če bo kdorkoli od ustavnih sodnikov delal tako, kot si želi desnica ali levica, potem je s to državo nekaj zelo narobe.

Kako daleč ste v SD s pripravami na volitve? Nekatere stranke že imajo skorajda pripravljen nabor kandidatov. Kdo bo torej peljal SD na volitve? 

Kdor politiko jemlje resno, ve, da se dan po volitvah že začnejo priprave na naslednje volitve. Če hočeš upravičiti dosedanji in dobiti nov mandat, moraš biti nenehno v stiku z volivci. Mi smo že pred enim letom začeli vse postopke za prihajajoče volilno leto in od takrat priprave potekajo ves čas. Tako je normalno delovanje resne stranke. Glede Dejana Židana pa: ankete, na katere se kot politik sicer ne smem preveč opirati, kažejo, da je najbolj priljubljen minister v državi, ljudje ga dojemajo kot dobrega in aktivnega ministra. V zadnjih letih je konsolidiral stranko, tako da ne vidim nobene potrebe po nadaljnjih špekulacijah nekaterih, ki nam vztrajno iščejo novega predsednika. Vsak dan bolj sem prepričan, da Židan je in bo v prihodnje dober predsednik ne samo stranke, temveč tudi vlade. In vse bolj se kaže, da to prepoznavajo tudi ljudje …

Pa je realno pričakovati zmago SD na volitvah?

Da, to je realno pričakovati. Veliko sem na terenu, med ljudmi. Iz pisarn v Državnem zboru težko dobiš občutek, kaj se dogaja na terenu. Ko pa greš med ljudi, vidiš pozitivno energijo in slišiš tudi kritike, ki se jih ne smeš bati. Ljudje so se naveličali novih strank, novo priložnost vidijo v tradicionalnih strankah, in SD si to absolutno zasluži. Ne zato, ker imamo tradicijo in dobro organizacijsko ter programsko mrežo. Našo prednost vidim predvsem v tem, da smo se bili pripravljeni soočiti z lastnimi slabostmi, da smo uspešni v procesu redefinicije nekaterih pogledov, da smo na pravi poti, da postanemo moderna socialdemokratska stranka, ki presega politične okvire. Bili smo in smo tudi danes pripravljeni spustiti primež starih zgodb, ki niso več odgovor na realno življenje in vse izzive, ki jih to prinaša.

Vendar v SD obstajajo trenja med različnimi strujami. Nekatere moti način delovanja nekdanjega generalnega sekretarja Uroša Jauševca, Aljuš Pertinač SD označuje za stranko traktoristov, drugi se obregajo ob delo sedanjega trajnika Dejana Levaniča … Prepad med staro in novo generacijo?

To je stalnica v naši stranki. Vedno so bili spopadi med skupinami znotraj stranke, na koncu pa je to sestavni del življenja neke politične skupine. Vendar se znamo poenotiti, ko je treba. Pred Levaničem in Jauševcem smo imeli odličnega generalnega sekretarja Dušana Kumra. Tudi Jauševec je prinesel nekaj novega. Levanič je generalni sekretar, ki glede stranke široko razmišlja, ker je bil poslanec in državni sekretar in dobro pozna mrežo. Kar pa zadeva traktoriste: velika mesta so zelo pomembna, brez njih težko zmagaš na volitvah, toda mi si ne dovolimo zanemarjati podeželja, ker so tudi tam ljudje z istimi in še drugimi problemi. Če sem traktorist zato, ker slišim tudi probleme ljudi zunaj urbanih središč, potem me ta oznaka ne moti.

Računate na podporo ljubljanskega župana?

Dejstvo je, da je Zoran Janković dober župan in da mu Ljubljančani zaupajo. Od tega ne moremo bežati. To mu priznamo tudi mi in ne vem, zakaj bi to zanikali. Enako velja še za marsikaterega drugega župana velike občine. Je pa res, da brez Ljubljane še posebej stranke na levici težko zmagajo na volitvah, in Jankovićeva podpora bi bila tako dobrodošla tudi za našo stranko. Z njim imamo nekaj skupnih pogledov in težko bi rekli, da v levosredinski zgodbi nismo na isti strani. Medtem ko Janković ne potrebuje strank, da zmaga na lokalnih volitvah, stranke potrebujejo Jankovića in njegovo podporo za dober rezultat na državnozborskih volitvah.

Bo koalicija zdržala do rednih volitev? Je sploh še dovolj zaupanja, da bi lahko izpeljali projekte, pri katerih naj bi veljal najširši konsenz znotraj koalicije?

Ne razmišljam tako kot nekateri člani koalicije, da smo v času pred volitvami in zato naj zdaj le še nagovarjamo ljudi, da bi tako pridobili čim več glasov, kar naj bi bil tudi razlog, da ne sprejmemo nobenih pomembnih odločitev več. Problemi ljudi pa ostajajo in te moramo reševati!

Zdravstvena zakonodaja je ena tistih, ki jo moramo sprejeti, ne glede na to, do kdaj traja koalicija. Bo pa morala biti ministrica bolj proaktivna in prisluhniti tudi tistim, ki ji skušajo dobronamerno svetovati. Pol mandata smo se ukvarjali s problemom koroških dečkov, in zdaj ko je reorganizacija centrov za socialno delo v vsebinskem delu narejena, bomo padli na eni tabli in vprašanju, kje bo ta visela. Nekdo bo moral prevzeti odgovornost za to. O drugem tiru govorimo že leta, zdaj pa forsiramo nekaj zaradi volitev in si ne vzamemo dovolj časa, da ne bi ponovili napake s Tešem 6. Dogaja se nam Mercator – upam, da bomo v tej zgodbi izkoristili dobro pozicijo in dobre odnose z Rusijo. Zdaj lahko popravimo napako, ki smo jo naredili pred leti, ko smo Mercator prodali slabemu lastniku.

Vse to bi morali narediti. Ampak dokler bomo držali figo v žepu, bo rezultat tak, kakršen je. Kar zadeva mene, bom ostal na terenu, med ljudmi, kajti poslanci se morajo pogovarjati. V pisarnah smo preveč oddaljeni od realnih problemov in zaslepljeni. Seveda prevečkrat kakšno zinem in potem mi rečejo, da sem rušitelj koalicije. Toda vidim probleme in ljudje se obračajo name.

Ob pozornem spremljanju izjav ključnih predstavnikov koalicijskih strank človek dobi občutek, da odgovornost prelagate drug na drugega, vsak po svoje želi ustvariti vtis, da je problematične člene treba iskati drugje, le pri njih ne.

Se strinjam, toda zaupanje, ki ga je treba graditi v družini ali podjetju, je treba graditi tudi v poslanski skupini ali koaliciji. Ko sestavljaš koalicijo in program, se dogovoriš, kaj je pomembno. Sedeli smo štirinajst dni, vse natančno zapisali in tam je bilo vzpostavljeno zaupanje. Pri sprejemanju zakonodaje, pa tudi pri kadrovskih zadevah, ki so bile na prangerju zadnje tedne, vidimo, kako pomembno je zaupanje. Mi pa vse preveč delamo v smeri, češ reševali bomo tega ministra, ker je naš, drugemu pa ne bomo dali, kar bi si želel. Strinjam se denimo s tem, kar je bilo narejenega glede policije, toda zakaj ne rešujemo tudi vojske? Je to problem naše ministrice? Mislim, da ne. Gre za problem cele države in bojim se, da nekateri ne vidijo pravega pomena problema na tem področju. Tipičen primer je tudi teran. To ni Židanov teran, to je slovenski teran, za katerega bi se morala politika poenotiti, ne pa si metati polena pod noge.

Mandat je kljub vsemu v zadnji četrtini. Koliko so izpolnjene zaveze iz koalicijske pogodbe?

Pogodba je zapis, ki predvsem izraža politično smer koalicije. Realnost pa se žal izkaže za drugačno. Glede zdravstva smo bili vsi zelo pametni, kaj je treba narediti, realizacija pa je zelo slaba. Odgovornost morata prevzeti minister in celotna vlada. Navsezadnje je vseeno, kdo in čigav je minister. Ljudje imajo težave in mi smo odgovorni za to. Sicer bo pa narod sam na koncu sodil.

Poleg zdravstvene reforme je problem zase tudi ustanavljanje demografskega sklada. Hrvati so denimo pri tem zelo uspešni, medtem ko se pri nas močno zatika, najbrž spet zaradi prerivanja, kdo bo obvladoval denar in vodil sklad.

Zdaj ni ključno, kdo bo obvladoval demografski sklad, ampak se je treba najprej dogovoriti, kaj bomo z njim sploh naredili in kako postaviti temelje. V Desusu in SD imamo glede tega podobne poglede, SMC pa malo drugačne. Najprej je treba razčistiti osnovo, šele potem lahko nadaljujemo.

Vprašanje je tudi, kako se bo razpletal drugi tir. Nič ne kaže, da bi šlo gladko in po prvotnih načrtih.

V tej državi imamo veliko civilnih iniciativ, koristnih in manj koristnih, toda iniciativo glede drugega tira je treba poslušati, tudi zaradi izkušenj z večjimi državnimi investicijami, ki so se dogajale v preteklosti. Zame je ključno vprašanje, kaj bodo Madžari želeli in kakšni interesi so v ozadju, da bi pomagali graditi infrastrukturni objekt v drugi državi. Nelogično je, da ni govora o slabšem javnofinančnem položaju Madžarske v primerjavi s Slovenijo, pa Madžarska zdaj velja za nekega odrešenika drugega tira. Tega ne morem razumeti. Poleg tega nimamo podatka, koliko denarja bo sploh potrebnega za gradnjo drugega tira. Težko je na slepo sprejemati zakone in za nameček še po nujnem postopku.

In navsezadnje – smo v pričakovanju arbitražnega sporazuma in implementacije sodbe. Slovenija za to vsekakor potrebuje politično stabilnost.

Odločitev o arbitraži bo znana v prihodnjih mesecih in takrat država ne sme narediti napake. Ker smo se v tej zgodbi, drugače kot Hrvaška, zavezali k spoštovanju mednarodnega prava in k spoštovanju dogovora, menim, da se mora takrat slovenska politika poenotiti. Zato sem prepričan, da so nedavne izjave prvaka Desusa, da SD ne potrebujejo v vladi, ker imata SMC in Desus sama dovolj glasov, nepotrebne.

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